|
|
Post by armydoogie on Aug 26, 2017 13:40:44 GMT -5
Hi all... longtime reader, first time commenter, here with a question.
I was looking at the Florida Gator and Texas Longhorn rosters, and they seemed packed with taller pin hitters, like we were spoiled with during the dynasty years. Were we just blessed with a unique combination of height and skill in our hitters and blockers those years? I'm trying to see why the disconnect between recruiting height in the past (which cannot be coached) and a distinct lack of height in our front row in recent recruiting years. Is there any correlation between taller hitters and championship performances, with the exception of our 2014 victory? Just wondering (and rambling, obviously).
- armydoogie (retired)
|
|
|
|
Post by cross5 on Aug 26, 2017 14:02:57 GMT -5
Hi all... longtime reader, first time commenter, here with a question. I was looking at the Florida Gator and Texas Longhorn rosters, and they seemed packed with taller pin hitters, like we were spoiled with during the dynasty years. Were we just blessed with a unique combination of height and skill in our hitters and blockers those years? I'm trying to see why the disconnect between recruiting height in the past (which cannot be coached) and a distinct lack of height in our front row in recent recruiting years. Is there any correlation between taller hitters and championship performances, with the exception of our 2014 victory? Just wondering (and rambling, obviously). - armydoogie (retired) By outside hitters Im not seeing any difference. Hodge, Courtney, McClendon were all in the 6'1 to 6'2 ranges as is our current crop. However on the rightside/Opposite yes we did see 6'4 to 6'5 with Brown, Scott and Whitney. The "PROBLEM" or issue that you are alluding to is really not one of want but more of get. PSU recruited many of the same players that some of the teams did the past 2 year but they elected not in coming here for various reasons. Of course the bigger thing that we as fans need to keep in persepctive is what program has won more or been in a position to win more than us in the past 10 years or so? we won 6 in the last 9 years.....very much could have won in 2012 and will be a serious contender this year. 2016 Stanford (26-7) John Dunning 3-1 Texas Columbus 2015 Nebraska (32-4) John Cook 3-0 Texas Omaha 2014 Penn State (36-3) Russ Rose 3-0 BYU Oklahoma City 2013 Penn State (34-2) Russ Rose 3-1 Wisconsin Seattle 2012 Texas (29-4) Jerritt Elliott 3-0 Oregon Louisville 2011 UCLA (29-6) Michael Sealy 3-1 Illinois San Antonio, Texas 2010 Penn State (32-5) Russ Rose 3-0 California UMKC 2009 Penn State (38-0) Russ Rose 3-2 Texas South Florida 2008 Penn State (38-0) Russ Rose 3-0 Stanford Nebraska 2007 Penn State (34-2) Russ Rose 3-2 I think recruiting has already rebounded from a couple thin years. |
|
|
|
Post by armydoogie on Aug 26, 2017 14:18:56 GMT -5
Hi all... longtime reader, first time commenter, here with a question. I was looking at the Florida Gator and Texas Longhorn rosters, and they seemed packed with taller pin hitters, like we were spoiled with during the dynasty years. Were we just blessed with a unique combination of height and skill in our hitters and blockers those years? I'm trying to see why the disconnect between recruiting height in the past (which cannot be coached) and a distinct lack of height in our front row in recent recruiting years. Is there any correlation between taller hitters and championship performances, with the exception of our 2014 victory? Just wondering (and rambling, obviously). - armydoogie (retired) By outside hitters Im not seeing any difference. Hodge, Courtney, McClendon were all in the 6'1 to 6'2 ranges as is our current crop. However on the rightside/Opposite yes we did see 6'4 to 6'5 with Brown, Scott and Whitney. The "PROBLEM" or issue that you are alluding to is really not one of want but more of get. PSU recruited many of the same players that some of the teams did the past 2 year but they elected not in coming here for various reasons. Of course the bigger thing that we as fans need to keep in persepctive is what program has won more or been in a position to win more than us in the past 10 years or so? we won 6 in the last 9 years.....very much could have won in 2012 and will be a serious contender this year. 2016 Stanford (26-7) John Dunning 3-1 Texas Columbus 2015 Nebraska (32-4) John Cook 3-0 Texas Omaha 2014 Penn State (36-3) Russ Rose 3-0 BYU Oklahoma City 2013 Penn State (34-2) Russ Rose 3-1 Wisconsin Seattle 2012 Texas (29-4) Jerritt Elliott 3-0 Oregon Louisville 2011 UCLA (29-6) Michael Sealy 3-1 Illinois San Antonio, Texas 2010 Penn State (32-5) Russ Rose 3-0 California UMKC 2009 Penn State (38-0) Russ Rose 3-2 Texas South Florida 2008 Penn State (38-0) Russ Rose 3-0 Stanford Nebraska 2007 Penn State (34-2) Russ Rose 3-2 I think recruiting has already rebounded from a couple thin years. --------------- That makes sense. Thanks. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 14:46:11 GMT -5
Hi all... longtime reader, first time commenter, here with a question. I was looking at the Florida Gator and Texas Longhorn rosters, and they seemed packed with taller pin hitters, like we were spoiled with during the dynasty years. Were we just blessed with a unique combination of height and skill in our hitters and blockers those years? I'm trying to see why the disconnect between recruiting height in the past (which cannot be coached) and a distinct lack of height in our front row in recent recruiting years. Is there any correlation between taller hitters and championship performances, with the exception of our 2014 victory? Just wondering (and rambling, obviously). - armydoogie (retired) From 2010 through 2013, PSU had Katie Slay and Ariel Scott (the tallest 6'4" player I've ever seen) and then they added Aiyana Whitney. The number of tall players has dropped off and I think that impression was exacerbated by new ways to measure that seemed to knock an inch of every player's height. It's hard not to wonder how much height matters given the last two year's finishes. However.... Coach Rose is pretty good at compensating for height deficits. Perhaps the best recent example might be PSU's performance in the 2014 Final Four. Against Stanford PSU was able to negate Stanford's height advantage on the Lutz rotations and he employed the same fast-pace offense against BYU. Even last year, against a gigantic Stanford team in the B1G - PAC-12 challenge, PSU didn't lose so much because of a height disparity--but bad serve receive/passing. As you say, you can't coach height, but it seems like Coach Rose can coach a team that executes in the ways a height deficit can be negated or exploited by being quicker to hitting off high hands. |
|
|
|
Post by nyline on Aug 26, 2017 14:52:21 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by armydoogie on Aug 26, 2017 14:56:13 GMT -5
I think maybe the unspoken part of my question goes to the population, in general... Is the recent lack of talented, tall players in PSU, a recognition by Coach Rose and his staff that there just are NOT good, tall (6'5"+) prospects with raw talent for him to coach? Or, has there been a fundamental shift in recruiting philosophy to take shorter, talented front row players over taller players who end up at other (lesser?) schools?
|
|
|
|
Post by nyline on Aug 26, 2017 15:05:40 GMT -5
My guess/belief is that Coach Rose and staff haven't changed their recruiting philosophy at all -- they simply lost out on several taller recruits they would have liked to have. So if Blair Brown or Ariel Scott dopplegangers were in high school right now, and expressed interest in coming to Penn State, I am quite certain PSU staff would say "terrific!"
|
|
|
|
Post by armydoogie on Aug 26, 2017 15:09:34 GMT -5
My guess/belief is that Coach Rose and staff haven't changed their recruiting philosophy St all -- they simply lost out on several taller recruits they would have liked to have. So if Blair Brown or Ariel Scott dopplegangers were in high school right now, and expressed interest in coming to Penn State, I am quite certain PSU staff would say "terrific!" So, what could possibly be missing from the recruiting pitch? Great program, great school, great coach, great team history... Why NOT play for PSU? I don't know. I guess I'm just so blinded by the blue/white, that I don't understand players choosing not to be Lions. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 15:11:36 GMT -5
I think maybe the unspoken part of my question goes to the population, in general... Is the recent lack of talented, tall players in PSU, a recognition by Coach Rose and his staff that there just are NOT good, tall (6'5"+) prospects with raw talent for him to coach? Or, has there been a fundamental shift in recruiting philosophy to take shorter, talented front row players over taller players who end up at other (lesser?) schools? That's a toughie because, although you may not have meant it, it implies that PSU has a de facto right of first refusal for all high school recruits. You can go back on one of our threads and go through what was probably the site's most heated thread that discussed how successful PSU recruiting was/is. I don't follow the recruiting scene enough to know. And I certainly have no insight into how Coach Rose and his staff evaluate talent. |
|
|
|
Post by nyline on Aug 26, 2017 15:18:43 GMT -5
My guess/belief is that Coach Rose and staff haven't changed their recruiting philosophy St all -- they simply lost out on several taller recruits they would have liked to have. So if Blair Brown or Ariel Scott dopplegangers were in high school right now, and expressed interest in coming to Penn State, I am quite certain PSU staff would say "terrific!" So, what could possibly be missing from the recruiting pitch? Great program, great school, great coach, great team history... Why NOT play for PSU? I don't know. I guess I'm just so blinded by the blue/white, that I don't understand players choosing not to be Lions. I am totally guessing here, but I think three things come into play: 1) Coach Rose's age has probably been used against him (whispers from opposing coaches -- some of whom have been replaced, ironically -- of 'how long will he be there?'); 2) a desire to play right away, and concern by the recruit that Penn State was so "loaded" (remember that PSU's 2014 class was touted as the best ever -- for any school) that there wasn't any room; and 3) the subliminal idea that it would be better to help another school break through to the top than to be part of yet another PSU champion. But that's just a guess. |
|
|
|
Post by armydoogie on Aug 26, 2017 15:30:26 GMT -5
That's a lot of great insight. Thank you both for your time and responses. I enjoy watching the games when I can, but have never been on the court myself, outside of a "free-for-all/get the ball over the net" informal setting. I appreciate the admins/mods who know more about the tactics/techniques/strategies of the game. My questions are borne of genuine ignorance. I know nothing. Thanks again.
|
|
|
|
Post by seeyajohn on Aug 26, 2017 15:52:45 GMT -5
So, what could possibly be missing from the recruiting pitch? Great program, great school, great coach, great team history... Why NOT play for PSU? I don't know. I guess I'm just so blinded by the blue/white, that I don't understand players choosing not to be Lions. I am totally guessing here, but I think three things come into play: 1) Coach Rose's age has probably been used against him (whispers from opposing coaches -- some of whom have been replaced, ironically -- of 'how long will he be there?'); 2) a desire to play right away, and concern by the recruit that Penn State was so "loaded" (remember that PSU's 2014 class was touted as the best ever -- for any school) that there wasn't any room; and 3) the subliminal idea that it would be better to help another school break through to the top than to be part of yet another PSU champion. But that's just a guess. I would add a likely lack of scholarship money. That 2014 class had to be expensive. |
|
|
|
Post by elliotberton on Aug 26, 2017 16:31:16 GMT -5
This is a complex question. I recall a coach Rose interview a few seasons back where he acknowledged that he was a little slow to recognize the importance of taller players and eventually changed his recruiting. I also observe that on the international team level, the trend is to go with shorter and faster middles with taller outsides. In college I still think talent is more important than height. Daly Santana is just one example of a shorter player who was/is terrific.
I agree with Gnu, Cross and Nylines thoughts about recruiting challenges. However, I am not so sure that our problem has been missing out on the top big players. Rather we have theorized that recent difficulty is attributable to "connectedness" deficits. I think that the Brazil trip this Summer will help, as will the staff's apparent willingness to make dramatic system changes to make better use of the fine players we already have.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 18:06:45 GMT -5
I am totally guessing here, but I think three things come into play: 1) Coach Rose's age has probably been used against him (whispers from opposing coaches -- some of whom have been replaced, ironically -- of 'how long will he be there?'); 2) a desire to play right away, and concern by the recruit that Penn State was so "loaded" (remember that PSU's 2014 class was touted as the best ever -- for any school) that there wasn't any room; and 3) the subliminal idea that it would be better to help another school break through to the top than to be part of yet another PSU champion. But that's just a guess. I would add a likely lack of scholarship money. That 2014 class had to be expensive. I don't think expense in terms of dollars and cents is a limiting factor. Instead, I think the NCAA limit of 12 full-time scholarships for a fully-funded Division 1 program is the big limiter. If you don't pick the right 12 players, you gotta wait until spots open up--either through graduation, transfer, or other forms of attrition. From everything I've heard and observed, Coach Rose is probably one of the most ethical and honorable coaches when it comes to dealing with players who aren't quite making it. |
|
|
|
Post by traveler on Aug 27, 2017 19:37:03 GMT -5
In answer to the original post, no, at least not in OK City. (See BYU Hamson(
|
|
