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Post by elliotberton on Jan 26, 2022 20:18:56 GMT -5
Congrats to Abby. I wish her nothing but success. Having said that, I don't know that Abby would have been a great choice for Penn State due to her relative inexperience, but who knows. One thing I will say, based on a few conversations I've had with people who are generally well-informed, the single biggest driver in recruiting moving forward will be NILs money. The rumor (which I believe to be true) is that one prominent transfer received (legally, under NILs) $20,000 and a car. I question whether Penn State will be competing successfully in that arena. Maybe they will. But if they (or any school) aren't able to, the ability of a coach, whomever it is, to assemble a skilled team, will be significantly curtailed. Time will tell. This is what I worried about. So now coaching will also include begging "investors" to fund NILS for prospective players. College sports will never be the same. How long before conferences adopt a salary cap? |
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Post by nyline on Jan 26, 2022 20:28:42 GMT -5
Congrats to Abby. I wish her nothing but success. Having said that, I don't know that Abby would have been a great choice for Penn State due to her relative inexperience, but who knows. One thing I will say, based on a few conversations I've had with people who are generally well-informed, the single biggest driver in recruiting moving forward will be NILs money. The rumor (which I believe to be true) is that one prominent transfer received (legally, under NILs) $20,000 and a car. I question whether Penn State will be competing successfully in that arena. Maybe they will. But if they (or any school) aren't able to, the ability of a coach, whomever it is, to assemble a skilled team, will be significantly curtailed. Time will tell. This is what I worried about. So now coaching will also include begging "investors" to fund NILS for prospective players. College sports will never be the same. How long before conferences adopt a salary cap? Well, it's not unlike asking boosters for contributions, but the scale will be much higher. So fewer teams will be able to compete. The SEC sports conference will merge with the Securities Exchange Commission to control all sports and financial instruments, and the merged entity will bill itself as SEC2. (Lest I be reported to the Tinfoil Hat Authority, I'm joking. Sort of.) |
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Post by elliotberton on Jan 27, 2022 0:41:35 GMT -5
This is what I worried about. So now coaching will also include begging "investors" to fund NILS for prospective players. College sports will never be the same. How long before conferences adopt a salary cap? Well, it's not unlike asking boosters for contributions, but the scale will be much higher. So fewer teams will be able to compete. The SEC sports conference will merge with the Securities Exchange Commission to control all sports and financial instruments, and the merged entity will bill itself as SEC2. (Lest I be reported to the Tinfoil Hat Authority, I'm joking. Sort of.) When the Supreme Court decided that the kids could be paid for being in school that was the end. Now whoever has the biggest payroll will win. Used to be there were rules preventing boosters from giving a school competitive advantage. Now boosters are even paying the walk-ons. So now if our team does not do well it's not the coach's fault. Instead, you and I should be fired as boosters for not paying enough to sponsor the best players. I do hope that the players will be required to sign contracts and have to return bonus money if they try to transfer. Would hate for my NILS sponsorship to go to waste. |
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Post by pointps on Jan 27, 2022 9:34:44 GMT -5
Good luck to our new coaching staff. I understand they are good recruiters; they'll need to be. They need to recruit 16 and 17-year old girls, sign them, get them enrolled, then basically keep recruiting them every year they're on the roster in order to keep them out of the portal. But they could put their names in the portal each year to see if they get a better offer (i.e. NIL money) elsewhere. Some players will have those opportunities. We need a rich god-father or god-mother, and quick.
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Post by evanceg on Jan 27, 2022 10:21:18 GMT -5
While it was probably the correct decision legally, the U.S. Supreme Court's finding in NCAA vs Alston opened the door to the destruction of amateurism in college athletics. Simply, the schools with the most money win. It will create a level of competitive elitism previously unimagined and likely spells the death knell for many non-revenue (or "Olympic") sports. Donors who previously gave money to athletic departments will now redirect their "philanthropy" toward funding NIL deals with student-athletes.
It will take another 2-5 years for the "horror" of NIL and portal effects to clearly emerge and it's no sure bet that the NCAA or its legacy organization will figure out how to slow this train in a way that can meet the Court's free market rules concerning "educational benefits" for student-athletes.
I don't expect Penn State to be one of the schools that possess the financial resources and the donor base to compete with the the Georgias, Alabamas, Texas A&Ms and Ohio States going forward.
As things stand, every student-athlete on every varsity squad is a free agent every year. That's not even true in professional sports where athletes have contracts that bind them to teams.
None of this has anything to do with education, only with chasing money. How many student-athletes entered the transfer portal in their sport intent on pursuing better educational opportunities?
All my reasons for loving college sports, a lifelong passion, are quickly evaporating in front of my eyes. Good thing I'm an old guy.
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Post by nyline on Jan 27, 2022 11:43:50 GMT -5
While it was probably the correct decision legally, the U.S. Supreme Court's finding in NCAA vs Alston opened the door to the destruction of amateurism in college athletics. Simply, the schools with the most money win. It will create a level of competitive elitism previously unimagined and likely spells the death knell for many non-revenue (or "Olympic") sports. Donors who previously gave money to athletic departments will now redirect their "philanthropy" toward funding NIL deals with student-athletes. It will take another 2-5 years for the "horror" of NIL and portal effects to clearly emerge and it's no sure bet that the NCAA or its legacy organization will figure out how to slow this train in a way that can meet the Court's free market rules concerning "educational benefits" for student-athletes. I don't expect Penn State to be one of the schools that possess the financial resources and the donor base to compete with the the Georgias, Alabamas, Texas A&Ms and Ohio States going forward. As things stand, every student-athlete on every varsity squad is a free agent every year. That's not even true in professional sports where athletes have contracts that bind them to teams. None of this has anything to do with education, only with chasing money. How many student-athletes entered the transfer portal in their sport intent on pursuing better educational opportunities? All my reasons for loving college ports, a lifelong passion, are quickly evaporating in front of my eyes. Good thing I'm an old guy. Sadly, I agree with you, except on one point: "amateurism" was always a code, in my mind, for "keep the costs down." That curtain has been pulled back. |
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Post by pennstate1973 on Jan 27, 2022 16:31:09 GMT -5
Are there any documented examples thus far of WVB players getting big NIL money. By big I mean at least $50,000 which really isn't all that big except for a kid coming from an impoverished background.
What's the biggest documented payout thus far?
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Post by ethankasales on Jan 27, 2022 22:06:02 GMT -5
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Post by dc155 on Jan 28, 2022 9:45:39 GMT -5
Any idea if he's referring to PSU/Rec Hall? Or just talking on the topic of outdated facilities in general? Kind of related... A few weeks ago posters on the 247 forum were stating that a couple years ago, someone wanted to give a big donation to WVB but the athletic department turned it down. Does anyone know if this is true and if so, why the school would turn down the offer? (IIRC, this was either posted in the ongoing Facilities thread or the thread related to RR's retirement) |
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Post by pinkpanther on Jan 28, 2022 10:38:17 GMT -5
Any idea if he's referring to PSU/Rec Hall? Or just talking on the topic of outdated facilities in general? Kind of related... A few weeks ago posters on the 247 forum were stating that a couple years ago, someone wanted to give a big donation to WVB but the athletic department turned it down. Does anyone know if this is true and if so, why the school would turn down the offer? (IIRC, this was either posted in the ongoing Facilities thread or the thread related to RR's retirement) Dennis was the head coach at UVa, and they play in ancient "Mem Gym" -- so I read his tweet as being about UVa, which has some serious athletics facility issues. Of course, I also interpreted a previous tweet of his as being some somewhat subtle shade, so I'm sure he probably knew that this could also be interpreted to be about PSU, too. |
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Post by dc155 on Jan 28, 2022 10:49:20 GMT -5
Any idea if he's referring to PSU/Rec Hall? Or just talking on the topic of outdated facilities in general? Kind of related... A few weeks ago posters on the 247 forum were stating that a couple years ago, someone wanted to give a big donation to WVB but the athletic department turned it down. Does anyone know if this is true and if so, why the school would turn down the offer? (IIRC, this was either posted in the ongoing Facilities thread or the thread related to RR's retirement) Dennis was the head coach at UVa, and they play in ancient "Mem Gym" -- so I read his tweet as being about UVa, which has some serious athletics facility issues. Of course, I also interpreted a previous tweet of his as being some somewhat subtle shade, so I'm sure he probably knew that this could also be interpreted to be about PSU, too. I initially thought he was referring to his UVa days as well, but since I don't recall UVa WVB having had more success 10 years ago... Yea...  |
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Post by nittanye on Jan 28, 2022 10:52:08 GMT -5
Isn't this somewhat expected though? (take this at face value, please, no morality debates) When Paterno left, it became clear that the entire football program needed to be modernized. The success of the team was largely built on an "old school" approach with the legacy of a coach that had built success for an entire generation, and the approach to facilities was still of that former era. CJF, for all his successes and failures, has objectively spent a lot of energy getting those modernizations in place. At that level (just X's and O's here), the volleyball program has similarities. It was allowed to be old school and even outdated because it aligned with the persona of Russ Rose. KSC has made some not-so-subtle hints that some changes need to be made. I hope that the new coaching staff and athletic administration have a sufficiently high outlook about where those facilities should go because the B1G competition has really stepped up their game.
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Post by pinkpanther on Jan 28, 2022 11:28:16 GMT -5
Isn't this somewhat expected though? (take this at face value, please, no morality debates) When Paterno left, it became clear that the entire football program needed to be modernized. The success of the team was largely built on an "old school" approach with the legacy of a coach that had built success for an entire generation, and the approach to facilities was still of that former era. CJF, for all his successes and failures, has objectively spent a lot of energy getting those modernizations in place. At that level (just X's and O's here), the volleyball program has similarities. It was allowed to be old school and even outdated because it aligned with the persona of Russ Rose. KSC has made some not-so-subtle hints that some changes need to be made. I hope that the new coaching staff and athletic administration have a sufficiently high outlook about where those facilities should go because the B1G competition has really stepped up their game. I guess my question is what feels so old school about our facilities? Didn't WVB get a $2M locker room renovation done using a gift just a few years ago? I guess we don't have a brand new gym to replace Rec Hall, but at the same time, Rec Hall has a lot of great features that it doesn't feel to me (at least) as being a bad place to play. I followed up to my post by asking my friend about the facilities for sports at UVa, and the picture he painted me is one of absolutely horrible, awful problems that don't seem like they are going to be fixed in the next decade. So while maybe we are behind Alabama and a lot of the SEC in overall athletics facilities, I think we have a lot of great facilities and I don't know that I've ever heard of our WVB facilities being problematic from a recruiting standpoint. Honestly, if I'm a recruit and I hear that PSU is in the top 5/6/7 in regular home attendance and has a huge booster club that supports the team, I think that can offset some of the perceived limitations of our facilities. Curious if others think differently, though, and if there really is some glaring issue with Rec Hall or our other student athlete support that is way behind the rest of the B1G. |
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Post by nittanye on Jan 28, 2022 11:51:38 GMT -5
It's a good question, and interestingly one that CJF has specifically asked reporters to investigate regarding football.
To be fair, I can't point to specific deficiencies. I haven't walked the halls of comparable NCAA programs to know the pro/con of Nebraska's facilities (which look awesome on TV) vs. Penn State's. But I can read/hear what KSC says. From her introductory presser: "I think, with this new coaching staff, we’ll have new ideas in the gym, new ideas for the strength training and conditioning. I think we’re always trying to change a couple things here and there, but as far as the work ethic of this team, that will never waver." She said something very similar in the BTN interview, so she has things in mind. And it's likely smaller things like training equipment, study aids, nutrition, etc., and not "replace Rec Hall".
The national dialog around Penn State is that it is outdated. Whether that is true or not, the new coaching staff needs to force that dialog to change. John Cook and Kelly Sheffield are both older dudes, but no one associates those programs with old school style, and that definitely helps their recruiting.
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Post by dc155 on Jan 28, 2022 11:55:20 GMT -5
Isn't this somewhat expected though? (take this at face value, please, no morality debates) When Paterno left, it became clear that the entire football program needed to be modernized. The success of the team was largely built on an "old school" approach with the legacy of a coach that had built success for an entire generation, and the approach to facilities was still of that former era. CJF, for all his successes and failures, has objectively spent a lot of energy getting those modernizations in place. At that level (just X's and O's here), the volleyball program has similarities. It was allowed to be old school and even outdated because it aligned with the persona of Russ Rose. KSC has made some not-so-subtle hints that some changes need to be made. I hope that the new coaching staff and athletic administration have a sufficiently high outlook about where those facilities should go because the B1G competition has really stepped up their game. I guess my question is what feels so old school about our facilities? Didn't WVB get a $2M locker room renovation done using a gift just a few years ago? I guess we don't have a brand new gym to replace Rec Hall, but at the same time, Rec Hall has a lot of great features that it doesn't feel to me (at least) as being a bad place to play. I followed up to my post by asking my friend about the facilities for sports at UVa, and the picture he painted me is one of absolutely horrible, awful problems that don't seem like they are going to be fixed in the next decade. So while maybe we are behind Alabama and a lot of the SEC in overall athletics facilities, I think we have a lot of great facilities and I don't know that I've ever heard of our WVB facilities being problematic from a recruiting standpoint. Honestly, if I'm a recruit and I hear that PSU is in the top 5/6/7 in regular home attendance and has a huge booster club that supports the team, I think that can offset some of the perceived limitations of our facilities. Curious if others think differently, though, and if there really is some glaring issue with Rec Hall or our other student athlete support that is way behind the rest of the B1G. Compared to some of our other programs (soccer and swimming in particular) I also feel like our WVB facilities are good - though aesthetically outdated. Is it just a preference for modern and flashy vs. historic? Or perhaps there's amenities, or lack of certain amenities, that us fans don't have access to judge. One "issue" across all PSU programs though - often mentioned in other forums, is athlete dorms. |
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