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Post by ethankasales on Sept 19, 2024 22:44:07 GMT -5
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Post by seeyajohn on Sept 20, 2024 16:19:13 GMT -5
Perhaps the most jolting aspect of the straight-set loss to Pitt was the implications about recruiting. PSU took the court with a front line lineup made up entirely of transfer students. Only the back row players and the setter were high school recruits to Penn State.
Pitt, on the other hand, fielded a lineup composed entirely of players who came to Pitt from high school.
This glaring difference and the current dearth of high-level commits for 2025 and 2026 is concerning. It seems clear to me that PSU can only achieve long-term competitive participation at the top level of D1 volleyball by finding a top-level recruiter to bring on board as part of the coaching staff.
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Post by ethankasales on Sept 20, 2024 20:12:26 GMT -5
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Post by nyline on Sept 21, 2024 8:29:05 GMT -5
Perhaps the most jolting aspect of the straight-set loss to Pitt was the implications about recruiting. PSU took the court with a front line lineup made up entirely of transfer students. Only the back row players and the setter were high school recruits to Penn State. Pitt, on the other hand, fielded a lineup composed entirely of players who came to Pitt from high school. This glaring difference and the current dearth of high-level commits for 2025 and 2026 is concerning. It seems clear to me that PSU can only achieve long-term competitive participation at the top level of D1 volleyball by finding a top-level recruiter to bring on board as part of the coaching staff. seeyajohn . Your premise about the quality of incoming PSU recruits may very well be correct, and according to the recruiting services it is, to a degree. But I'm not so sure the recruiting services are very accurate these days. There isn't any one go-to service, which was what PrepVolleyball was in its hay day. Moreover, there are way more high level players these days than there were as recently as eight-to-ten years ago, when there generally was a significant talent gap between top-10 and top 11-20 ranked players, and a huge gap between top-10 and, say, the top 50-100 (with there always being exceptions). Today, a top 50-100 ranked player may not be all that different from a top 11-20 ranked player, or even a top-10 ranked player. There are just so many highly-skilled players, and so many clubs, it's pretty easy for a highly-talented player on a less-prominent club to get lost in the crowd. Plus, players rise in the rankings depending on who is recruiting them, which helps put them on the radars of the recruiting services. That happened with both Izzy Starck and Ava Falduto, who in their sophomore seasons were ranked anywhere from low teens to the mid-30s. By the end of their senior seasons, they were ranked #1 and #4/5, respectively. Looking ahead, the Penn State staff has recruited a fantastic foundation with 2024 recruits setter Izzy Starck (consensus #1 overall recruit) and libero Ava Falduto (#4 or #5 overall). The setter-libero duo is probably the most important in volleyball. In terms of 2025 front row recruits, l think you'll be very pleasantly surprised by Gabby Nichols -- a very athletic 6-4 player, whose father had a brief NBA career and is currently an assistant coach with the Philadelphia 76ers. I think Gabby will outperform her ranking (whatever it is) by a lot. And 6-4 Alexis Ewing is possibly even more athletic (her dad, Patrick, had a hall-of-fame NBA career and her mom was a College VB All-American -- I think the genes are there) -- and she skipped a grade, so she's a year younger than the other 2025s. Will she continue to develop and improve? Who knows. But the potential to be uber- successful is definitely there. The final 2025 front row recruit, 6-4 Marin Collins, is the least known, and lowest ranked, but people who have seen her play a lot say she is very good. Time will tell, but it is way early to write her (or any of the 2025s) off as being not good enough for Penn State to compete at the highest level. As to the 2026s, the three verbal front row commits look to me to be a high-end group. 6-4 Finley Kryskowiak was the #12/13 ranked recruit overall when she committed in June 2024, and is excelling this season. Her dad, Larry, had a solid 10-year NBA career (anyone see a recruiting pattern here?). Again, I could easily see her ranked in the top-10 before she graduates. Although 6-0 Haley Burgdorf was only ranked #40/#68 overall when she committed in 2024, she was the #1-ranked OH in talent-rich Illinois, reportedly has excellent ball control skills, and was already touching 10-2 this past spring as a sophomore. Six-rotation player, anyone? 2026 MB recruit Kendall Northern was ranked #24/26 overall, already touches 10-6 👀, and was heavily recruited by big name programs. She is going to really surprise, in a good way, I think. So although you may be right, and Penn State may be bereft of home-grown high-level talent in the coming years, I think you are underestimating the talent of the 2025 and 2026 classes. Remember, the recruiting services ain't what they used to be -- for good and ill -- and there are far more really good players out there than there used to be, so there's not as much distance between #5 and #50 as there used to be. I think Penn State has recruited very well. (p.s. 2025 libero Lexi Gin and 2026 6-2 setter/RS Danielle Whitmire are both excellent, high-end players, regardless of what their rankings may be). Finally, the narrative (not necessarily your belief, but the belief of many) that Penn State's reliance on the transfer portal in Coach Katie's first three seasons somehow speaks with finality to how she will approach recruiting in the future (and her prospects for recruiting success in the future), overlooks the roster and recruiting portfolio that Coach Katie inherited in 2022. The 2021 starting OHs Adanna Rollins and Erika Pritchard (both transfers-in under Russ Rose) had graduated, as had starting RS Jonni Parker. Star MB Kaitlyn Hord had abandoned the program for Nebraska. Alexa Markley, the sole incoming OH/RS recruit, had been ranked #87 overall by PrepVolleyball.com. Beyond that, the cupboard was mostly bare. Hello tranfer portal and Zoe Weatherington and Kash Williams! 2023 was pretty much the same story (no offense to Karis Willow, who may still excell, but was raw). So again, hello Jess Mruzek and Cam Hannah via the transfer portal! For this 2024 season, although the staff was able to attract Starck and Falduto -- both super recruits -- they had missed out on the premier front row players in the 2024 class (that's not surprising for a brand new staff -- and remember, star recruit Chloe Chicoine had decommitted in 2021 when Russ Rose announced his retirement). Enter redshirt freshman 6-2 RS/Opp Caroline Jurevicius (#17 overall in 2023) and 6-5 Jr. MB Maggie Mendelsen (#4 overall). That's filling a recruiting pipeline that had been pretty empty, not choosing the transfer portal over attracting home grown talent. I'm obviously bullish on Coach Katie's recruiting prowess. Time will tell. But I think it's a mistake to look at the past three seasons' transfer portal activity as indicative of how Coach Katie and her staff will approach the future or the success they will have recruiting high-level players.
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Post by psu1972 on Sept 21, 2024 10:30:16 GMT -5
Well said nyline. I couldn’t have said it better. Coach Katie has done a really good job with the hand she was dealt and deserves kudos for that.
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Post by ethankasales on Sept 21, 2024 18:44:11 GMT -5
Penn State commit Ava Jurevicius and her high school team.
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Post by seeyajohn on Sept 22, 2024 16:22:51 GMT -5
Well said nyline. I couldn’t have said it better. Coach Katie has done a really good job with the hand she was dealt and deserves kudos for that. I 100% agree that Katie has done an outstanding job of keeping the boat afloat after the decline in Russ' last few years. I still feel that a top recruiter of the type represented by Kaleena Walters Davidson under Russ would be a huge step forward for the future.
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Post by traveler on Sept 22, 2024 16:54:18 GMT -5
Well said nyline. I couldn’t have said it better. Coach Katie has done a really good job with the hand she was dealt and deserves kudos for that. I 100% agree that Katie has done an outstanding job of keeping the boat afloat after the decline in Russ' last few years. I still feel that a top recruiter of the type represented by Kaleena Walters Davidson under Russ would be a huge step forward for the future. Ironically she — Davidson — was Izzies Colorado Juniors coach if I got that right.
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Post by nyline on Sept 22, 2024 17:37:52 GMT -5
Well said nyline. I couldn’t have said it better. Coach Katie has done a really good job with the hand she was dealt and deserves kudos for that. I 100% agree that Katie has done an outstanding job of keeping the boat afloat after the decline in Russ' last few years. I still feel that a top recruiter of the type represented by Kaleena Walters Davidson under Russ would be a huge step forward for the future. I don't think any of us are in a position to assess who is a better recruiter -- Kaleena or Katie. I've met both of them, and both of them are, IMHO, extraordinary people. Kaleena was an exceptional recruiter. Rightly or wrongly, I think Coach Katie is too. With NIL, she has to contend with something that Kalenna never did -- and that can render meaningless almost any great recruiting effort.
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Post by jojonito on Sept 24, 2024 17:45:29 GMT -5
I 100% agree that Katie has done an outstanding job of keeping the boat afloat after the decline in Russ' last few years. I still feel that a top recruiter of the type represented by Kaleena Walters Davidson under Russ would be a huge step forward for the future. I don't think any of us are in a position to assess who is a better recruiter -- Kaleena or Katie. I've met both of them, and both of them are, IMHO, extraordinary people. Kaleena was an exceptional recruiter. Rightly or wrongly, I think Coach Katie is too. With NIL, she has to contend with something that Kalenna never did -- and that can render meaningless almost any great recruiting effort. Of the Pitt two-some of Babcock and Stafford, 1 was top 10 and the other was in the 30's or 40's (I think). So, I think one of the two significantly outplayed their ranking; again, however accurate the rankings were. I'm hoping, (and thinking), that the PSU recruits will also outplay their rankings.
Kelly Amonte Hiller, the lacrosse coach at Northwestern, said something to the effect that she didn't care how the players she recruited were ranked, she went by how she ranked them. And Katie has been coaching a long time and I think has a good idea of who she wants. Plus, Katie has seen most of these girls for a couple of years at the summer camps.
I do know that Gabrielle Nichols started volleyball late and is excelling now. I do believe that she will be like Dana Rettke; improving quite a bit thru her college years.
I get the impression, that Katie has been getting a fair number of the recruits that she/her staff have been looking at. I also thing, than from the transfer portal success that Katie has had, that she and her staff sell PSU and themselves quite well. She seems to be a coach that volleyball players want to play for.
However it turns out, next year will be very interesting for PSU. Also, next year is gonna be quite interesting for a lot of teams with pretty much all of the 5th year seniors gone and each team back to recruiting and not nearly (I think) as much transferring going on.
Like nyline said, the NIL adds a whole nother thing to be dealing with in recruiting. I don't envy the recruiters. Touch job.
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Post by ethankasales on Sept 24, 2024 22:27:05 GMT -5
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Post by jojonito on Sept 25, 2024 5:14:59 GMT -5
I 100% agree that Katie has done an outstanding job of keeping the boat afloat after the decline in Russ' last few years. I still feel that a top recruiter of the type represented by Kaleena Walters Davidson under Russ would be a huge step forward for the future. I don't think any of us are in a position to assess who is a better recruiter -- Kaleena or Katie. I've met both of them, and both of them are, IMHO, extraordinary people. Kaleena was an exceptional recruiter. Rightly or wrongly, I think Coach Katie is too. With NIL, she has to contend with something that Kalenna never did -- and that can render meaningless almost any great recruiting effort. One thing with Katie, I would wager that she is out on the road recruiting, unlike RR in his later years (I think). Another thing is that when Katie was first hired, both Brian Toron and Daniel Gwitt were mentioned as having good contacts in certain areas of the country, which would imply, that they were both pretty good recruiters. Don't know about Michael Henchy. But, I think that Katie is a "people" person, and I would guess that she isn't going to hire someone who isn't a people person, i.e. a pretty decent recruiter.
As has been mentioned before in various threads, part of the problem that RR had in his last 5 or so years of coaching, was finding assistant coaches who a) were able and willing to recruit, i.e. be out on the road a fair bit, and b) coaches that would stick around. There was a somewhat revolving door in the assistant coaches slots during this time. This can't have helped in the recruiting area.
On a totally different thought, who is the setting coach on PSU? I don't know for sure, but I don't think anyone of the coaches was setting during their player years. Am I wrong about this? But that brings up another question; do you have to have been a good setter to be a good setter coach? My guess is no. I'm sure there are coaches in pretty much any sport who are good in a particular areas where they didn't play. That by no means is a cut and dried requirement. But is it true in general?
This whole topic made me think of the drought in OH's at PSU in the last 5-7 years of RR's reign. Somebody counted that PSU didn't have the same pin hitters for about 5-7 years in a row. nyline made the funny comment after someone had mentioned the outside hitter drought saying, "And in breaking news, Julius Caesar has been assassinated." Quite funny.
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96psu
Sophomore
Posts: 54
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Post by 96psu on Sept 25, 2024 8:58:14 GMT -5
Very interesting discussion here. I too am bullish on the incoming players in 25/26 and didn’t realize until Nyline pointed it out how so many have celebrity fathers. Add to that CJ and Zoe, who’s mom coaches D1 women’s volleyball, and it’s more than a coincidence. Your last name carries a lot of weight and expectations. I’m not sure I give credence to that over proven performance but I guess you have to let it play out and see if they live up to the expectations their names bring.
I agree the recruiting rankings are basically worthless. An experienced college coach’s eye for talent is far superior to the opinions of whomever spews the garbage PrepVolleyball and PrepDig and others convince club volleyball parents to pay for. Most kids in those rankings get celebrated at an early age and ride that wave while those who develop late in high school rarely get noticed. I’ll give you two examples.
Nyline mentioned Markley was #87 in PVB. She received little attention early in high school, but played in the same USAV pipeline and at a high open level club and her senior year she was ranked in the 30’s and was one of the top pins in the class of 2022, then earned B1G all-freshman honors her first year at PSU. Others in that class that were ranked much higher, Hayden Kubik and Ella Wrobel, went to Nebraska and Wisconsin respectively, hardly ever saw the court, and have since transferred looking for better opportunities.
Markley and Willow were Russ Rose recruits. I think it’s fair to say the greatest coach in college volleyball history might know what he was doing when he brought them, and committed Chloe Chicoine to Happy Valley, and knew he could develop them into great players. He could turn a stone into a diamond and a diamond into an Olympian. The current problem isn’t with recruiting, it’s with development. I think KSC knows her limitations in being able to develop players and due to the pressure to win immediately has chosen the transfer portal over developing Russ’s recruits because that’s how she feels she can win now. I don’t think that changes. We’ll graduate 3 of 6 pins this year, all of whom have a large role, and we have not developed Markley or Willow, and the jury is still out on CJ. I’ll eat my words if she rolls with Markley, Willow, CJ, and 2 freshmen next season. Back to the portal we go….
I don’t like the tone that has set but once you go there, especially to the level we have, you can’t stop, and I really don’t like the problems with culture that a quick fix brings. I’ll die on this hill that the problem with the last two seasons and not being able to get past the Sweet 16 or beat other high level programs like Pitt, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Florida, Georgia Tech, and Purdue is not a talent deficit. It’s cultural, and that’s a result of the portal and having a majority of your roster be “new to PSU” every year.
There is little investment in the school, the program, its history, etc from the transfers. When things are going good, it’s great, but when things go bad, it’s awful. That’s the nature of the portal and college athletics in general these days, but if you look across all sports, men’s and women’s, very few teams that make it to the pinnacle of success do it with as much roster turnover as we have had (including players who could have stayed another year like Gabby Blossom, Katelyn Hord, Adonna Rollins, Maddie Bilinovic, Allie Holland), etc. Those players not finishing out their eligibility here, especially those that played for Penn State after the coaching change, is very telling. You can win a lot of games, but you can’t win championships, without senior leadership and a great culture and so long as we are getting mocked for our love of the portal, that’s where we are. I hope I’m wrong, but I think we are in a similar position next year too. By the time the 25/26 classes reach upper class status, maybe that changes, but not anytime soon.
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Post by nittlion on Sept 25, 2024 10:44:23 GMT -5
I do believe it is pretty hard the position KSC stepped into. With having to not only uphold but actually bring back PSU to its typical standard while in the new transfer portal era and also following the legacy of Russ Rose. I think priority may have been to get PSU to a win now type of team because imagine the fall off in the long run if KSC wasn’t able to put together a team who could make it into post season and actually compete still. It’s clear that PSU’s level of play had gone down during Russ’s last few years and I’m sure that had an effect on getting some talented top ranked recruits during that time. But I believe if KSC hadn’t been able to get some of the top players in the portal like she has been, we wouldn’t see some of the players like Ava and Izzy and the future recruits still wanting to play for Penn State. I think it has to be noted and remembered the way many of these transfers have spoken not only about Penn State but about KSC. Of course there are players who I’m sure would jump at the opportunity to play at a school like Penn State, but I think what is even more impressive is the confidence these players have in being guided by KSC. For the most part, the transfers that have come in with KSC as the head coach seemed to have a great understanding of the legacy of Penn State and have all only spoken highly of the trust they had with KSC as their head coach. What I think I’ve noticed in most of the players KSC has gotten through the portal is their ability to bring a hunger/fire onto the court. Not to speak badly on Mac, but I think she may be the only transfer so far that didn’t bring the energy a Penn State team needed. And with the seniors who had eligibility but transferred out like Hord, Blossom, even Rollins, etc., although all were very talented, I do not believe they all played with that type of fire we would expect from a Penn State team (but was very happy to see Blossom find that fire again with SD).
I also do believe KSC has developed every player on the team that has been there under her as the HC. I think it may be a bit harder to see for some players like Markley and Willow as they do not see much playing time, but with Markley for instance, her serve has improved greatly and she looks to be taking smarter shots to avoid being blocked as much. I also believe Willow was hurt for a time hindering her development. Even with players like Zoe, Kash, Elisia, Clark. By the end of the season they were much improved compared to the start. Taylor has become a much better offensive weapon for the team as well and she even had a big injury that halted her development. Although inconsistent at this time, her serve looks to cause problems when it is in. I think we all can agree Grimes has improved her game greatly to become the starting libero for the team (and I’m hoping that Pitt game was just a fluke because she looked great and what is more expected from her against Yale). Both Cam and Jess I believe are hitting at much better percentages and not just swinging into the blocks. Cam’s serve and back row play looks to be continuing to improve and I believe she could be a 6 rotation player by the end of the season. A. Starck has been a staple in our back row and from what I’ve seen this year, she is also taking better swings when in the front row. Joce’s serve has proven to be very effective and she has made some nice plays during the moments she is in. I also would have faith in Quinn as a setter if they ever do choose to run a 6-2 system.
I also think KSC’s method of developing players may be different than what some would want/like. I think it has been pointed out previously but I think she is ok with having a player stay in and make mistakes to learn from them compared to subbing them out. Like with Zoe and CJ, both had long leashes and were given the chance to work through their mistakes. I think this will greatly help a player like CJ in the long run as she still has 3 more years after this season, which could be a big part as to why she is still seeing more playing time than Markley. Even with Zoe, although frustrating to see someone with that much power get blocked that often, she seemed to learn to tip/hit around the block better towards the end of her career at PSU. Realistically though for Markley, she is not going to play over Cam or Jess this season and I think she is a better OH than RS so I do hope she decides to finish out at Penn State because I think she will be critical next year. Much like Nia Reed who had to watch Frantti and Lee play over her. She had huge moments when subbed in, but still did not get the true starting spot until her last year and she carried the team. It does seem like she is starting to get added into rotations a bit more in a few games, but there has to be something we aren’t seeing likely at practice that keeps CJ as the starter. I think I have been one of Markley’s biggest supporters since she’s gotten on the team, but can admit if CJ can continue to find ways around the block and improve her block she should be the starter at RS.
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Post by nittlion on Sept 25, 2024 11:02:49 GMT -5
And to follow up, I think the culture issue has only been an issue with a few transfers we’ve seen (Mac, Rollins, Pritchard IMO). For the others I think it was just the inability to peak at the same time. I do wish in an alternate universe we were able to have Kash, Elisia, and Jess play together. I think that’s another thing to note, Penn State hasn’t had all the needed talent on the team for one season. I think so far there’s always been a player or two who weren’t playing at the level needed and then some younger players not developed enough yet to push the team over the edge. But I do believe with this roster we have the best chance of seeing it all come together by the end of season. I don’t think KSC should be faulted for going to the portal to find talent. If you aren’t getting the recruits in and the current players aren’t developed enough to compete at that high level, why not utilize the last option of finding talent in the portal. Texas’s team has won with a majority of transfers. Wisconsin and Nebraska both have had vital transfers leading their teams. Why can’t Penn State do the same? With the amount of players KSC has coming in over the next two years I believe her focus will be to develop those players, but she is also very aware the portal can and most likely will be needed to add in some missing upperclass talent/experience. As much as we all would want new recruits to be true freshman that unfortunately isn’t always the case. Then add on the fact they’re at Penn State playing in the top conference, for some players it will take more time than others to adjust and then be able to actually produce at a high level. I think all players in the country are faced with the issue of a transfer possibly coming in and taking the starting job over a true commit, but that is unfortunately the state of the game now and I think the teams who are able to capitalize on this will show the most growth and continue to win.
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