|
|
Post by nyline on Oct 31, 2016 6:18:48 GMT -5
I didn't think your question was provacative, and didn't intend my response to be provacative either. I wasn't really comparing Rose's position to Franklin's, more comparing the up-and-down reactions of fans of the football team, and how perceptions can change on a dime. Or a service error. I don't think the comparison to Urban Meyer is apt, for a couple of reasons. Football has 85 scholarships for 24 positions. Volleyball has 12 for 7. You can make a recruiting error in football, or suffer an injury, and still have a couple of scholarship backups who were high school stars and highly recruited. In volleyball, there simply isn't that margin for error. For me, that's what makes Rose's accomplishments from 2007 through 2014 so astonishing. Granted, the 2014 Penn State class was rated #1, but the 2013 class wasn't ranked, the 2015 class is a work-in-progress (with Gorrell looking good, and noone else contributing), and the 2016 class looks to be DS's and not much else, so far. And good as that 2014 class looked on paper, Reed was raw, and then suffered a serious injury. Weiskircher has been up and down, and without inside information of any kind, Frantti still doesn't look 100%. In football, Urban Meyer has a bevy of 4/5 star recruits fighting for playing time at each position. Coach Rose doesn't have that luxury -- at least this season. Detering has done well as a transfer at setter, but didn't shine against Michigan, Wisconsin or Minnesota. Unless Reed steps up, there's really no pin hitter sitting on the bench ready to play at a high level. It did look like last season that the team sometimes lacked chemistry and leadership and, if not heart, then grit. This season, early on, they seemed to lack chemistry and, at least in the North Carolina match, grit/heart. But since the Colorado trip, things improved. I don't know that the issue is chemistry or heart/grit (hard for me to assess leadership). What they seem to lack most of all is a star-caliber RS/Opp, in the Aiyana Whitney, A. Scott, Blair Brown mold. So I think the talent level is down.
|
|
|
|
Post by tillie1014 on Oct 31, 2016 10:43:26 GMT -5
I have a problem basing all( or many, or most or whatever your position) the difficulties on the setter. Can not these athletic outsides adjust? I noted often that when faced with a strong double block they just blast away when players in the past did other things and made the opponent adjust some. Why not now? Blair learned to make changes on her attack so can't Heidi? We seem to be dominated by the slide with no variations that I have observed(an honestly my time watching the team has been limited)
As for the future don't write them off but the coaching staff must perhaps find some other offensive program that provide something other than vanilla offense. How many 1 balls have we seen Washington attack? Does the 31 still exist? Why so few back row attacks especially when it is realistic to question the use of Washington and Franti in the back row. Seems to me that Wilma did a good job on defense but we don't see her in any role now.
It takes a lot of ego to question this staff and Russ. But it seems that little improvement has occurred for this group which came with such public acknowledgement. The scenery in the Big 10 has changed and for the sport that is to be a positive. Now we must adjust.
|
|
|
|
Post by tillie1014 on Oct 31, 2016 11:04:00 GMT -5
"will only go so far as the setter will take them".
Was Micha a great setter? Did she lead the team because of her setting skill or did she lead the team by the dominating competitive personality reflected in every player on the floor? From what little I know of Micha she wanted to win all the time and be the KING of the HILL
From all appearances that is not what Brianna demonstrates. Detering is not known to me but she was not the starter for Florida for reasons not known to me.I have seen her a little and like what I saw but is she great? We won in 2010 but was Carp great? Was she the one that made them Champs?
|
|
|
|
Post by goldengoal on Oct 31, 2016 11:31:09 GMT -5
I'd like to add my 2 cents on the issue here. I cannot help but think that a volleyball team is a lot like a football team, in that the setter (or quarterback) plays a huge role in the success of their team. It's the most important position, and no matter how good all the other players on the team are, if the setter cannot deliver great balls consistently, the team will have it's ups and downs. Our setters are good, but not great. A team will only go so are as their setter will take them. Also, the quality of play of the setter really affects the team confidence, and I feel our team has lost some of the earlier confidence they had and will need to regain it in order to play competitively, again. Of course, there are other issues, such as the streaky play of Frantti and Thelen, which has affected matches as well. Overall, I believe that our team can upset some good teams come tourney time. Now, will they win 4 in a row to get to the final four? I wouldn't bet the farm. Having said that, I'll follow them zealously until the very end of the season.  You must not remember Chuck Burkhart. |
|
|
|
Post by nyline on Oct 31, 2016 12:40:03 GMT -5
I'd like to add my 2 cents on the issue here. I cannot help but think that a volleyball team is a lot like a football team, in that the setter (or quarterback) plays a huge role in the success of their team. It's the most important position, and no matter how good all the other players on the team are, if the setter cannot deliver great balls consistently, the team will have it's ups and downs. Our setters are good, but not great. A team will only go so are as their setter will take them. Also, the quality of play of the setter really affects the team confidence, and I feel our team has lost some of the earlier confidence they had and will need to regain it in order to play competitively, again. Of course, there are other issues, such as the streaky play of Frantti and Thelen, which has affected matches as well. Overall, I believe that our team can upset some good teams come tourney time. Now, will they win 4 in a row to get to the final four? I wouldn't bet the farm. Having said that, I'll follow them zealously until the very end of the season. You must not remember Chuck Burkhart. Love the reference! Of course, Chuck played at a time when Woody Hayes's admonition ("there are only three things that can happen with a pass, and two of them are bad") was still given thoughtful consideration. |
|
|
|
Post by elliotberton on Oct 31, 2016 14:34:22 GMT -5
This is a fascinating discussion with many good points presented.
If Frantti has a physical issue, it is not apparent to me. She swings hard enough, but often right at the block or right at the Libero. She is getting blocked and dug a lot, and her hitting percentage, even in matches where she gets lots of kills, is down from her Freshman year.
In the last 3 matches, Haleigh is having some trouble finding the floor too.
Thelen is not truly an RS. She appears most effective with the slide and lower sets in the middle. That is a problem in transition. Even last year's non championship team could always just set Whitney who was both taller and apparently quicker than Heidi to get points in some of these long rallies. We used to routinely win those rallies-now not so much.
I don't really question the organization of the offense. We are running lots of X plays, which is not something I recall from the past, and of necessity, more back row attacks than I perceive we did in recent years. I think these efforts constitute an effort to give our hitters a better chance to get the ball down, since we can't just muscle the ball through other defenses as used to be our apparent plan in the past.
By my observation, what has really happened in the last two seasons is much better competition. The top 3 BIG teams have great setters, each of whom are really strong from the service line too. The opposing Liberos on these teams are well prepared and generally in position to dig up even the most powerful swings, and the opposing blockers are doing an increasingly better job of getting hands on our hitters' attempts.
That said, there are always hopes for sudden improvement. Simone Lee only showed brief flashes before this year. Now she is our acknowledged go to hitter. Still a few too many errors, but part of that is her ongoing effort to vary her attacks. Thelen was an afterthought MB, who though inconsistent is now a contributing OPP, and Gorrell has a lot of upside. Maybe one of our bench hitters will catch fire and contribute in future seasons. Whether any or all of these ladies can improve enough to effect the results is why we watch.
I like many aspects of this team. Right now there are 3 teams who seem to be better than our group, but that can change. If we somehow beat Nebraska at home, everyone will feel lots better.
|
|
|
|
Post by Millennium on Nov 1, 2016 4:47:12 GMT -5
I'd like to add my 2 cents on the issue here. I cannot help but think that a volleyball team is a lot like a football team, in that the setter (or quarterback) plays a huge role in the success of their team. It's the most important position, and no matter how good all the other players on the team are, if the setter cannot deliver great balls consistently, the team will have it's ups and downs. Our setters are good, but not great. A team will only go so are as their setter will take them. Also, the quality of play of the setter really affects the team confidence, and I feel our team has lost some of the earlier confidence they had and will need to regain it in order to play competitively, again. Of course, there are other issues, such as the streaky play of Frantti and Thelen, which has affected matches as well. Overall, I believe that our team can upset some good teams come tourney time. Now, will they win 4 in a row to get to the final four? I wouldn't bet the farm. Having said that, I'll follow them zealously until the very end of the season. You must not remember Chuck Burkhart. Unfortunately, no. However, after looking up his name, I found that he was QB for PSU's football team in the late 60's. The Lions had an undefeated season with him in '68-'69? I'm thinking your comment was meant to humor me; I'm assuming that Burkhart was not that good and the team kept winning despite his play? Anyway, I don't try and correlate statistical date in sports like football and volleyball from 20 years ago, much less 40 years ago. I think the game has just changed so much. Especially in volleyball, where the rules for scoring have changed from side-out to rally scoring. |
|
|
|
Post by tillie1014 on Nov 1, 2016 7:38:22 GMT -5
The volleyball establishment changed the rules from side out to rally scoring probably to accommodate television and the inherent cash that it could generate. I for one like that we can see many more matches on tv.
From just an observers point of view has it made the game more interesting for the person in the bleachers?
What changes have occurred in the style of play or the athletic talents needed as a result of this change?.
|
|
|
|
Post by Millennium on Nov 1, 2016 7:58:56 GMT -5
"will only go so far as the setter will take them". Was Micha a great setter? Did she lead the team because of her setting skill or did she lead the team by the dominating competitive personality reflected in every player on the floor? From what little I know of Micha she wanted to win all the time and be the KING of the HILL From all appearances that is not what Brianna demonstrates. Detering is not known to me but she was not the starter for Florida for reasons not known to me.I have seen her a little and like what I saw but is she great? We won in 2010 but was Carp great? Was she the one that made them Champs? Yes, Micha was a great setter. Micha was the complete package, a great setter, an exceptional server, and a fiery leader. She was National Player of the Year, which is a very difficult honor to achieve among so many great athletes each year. Both Weiskircher and Detering are good setters (they would be starting in most programs throughout the country) and both are really good servers, but they are not on Micha's level. I base my statement on the fact that all the championship-caliber teams have setters who are ranked in the top 10 in the nation. I think Carlini (WI) and Havili (KS) make their respective teams much, much better, and I don't think those schools have better hitters than Penn State. Of course, setting is not the only problem we have, but I do think it's the most important. We need a true right side hitter, who can really hit the ball through the floor. Also, it would be nice if Frantti was more consistent. I was not following PSU volleyball in 2010, so I cannot comment about the team when Carp was setting. I only know they got a favorable bracket, which really helped them make it to the final. I'm assuming that the 2010 team had experience on their side (from winning 3 championships in a row), which gave them an edge against other teams (who might have played more tentative because of emotions or nerves). |
|
|
|
Post by Millennium on Nov 1, 2016 8:18:41 GMT -5
What they seem to lack most of all is a star-caliber RS/Opp, in the Aiyana Whitney, A. Scott, Blair Brown mold. So I think the talent level is down. I agree with your assessment of a lack of great RS/Opp this year, but I don't think it's the most important positional need. I would prefer a top 10 setter before a RS/Opp any day. I cannot help but recall what happened to UCLA in 2014, when UCLA had RS/Opp Karsta Lowe posting some ridiculous numbers (Lowe was one of the top 3 candidates for National Player of the Year). Penn State swept UCLA in the 3rd round of the NCAA tournament that year. Here is Karsta's stat line from 2014: |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 16:22:05 GMT -5
"will only go so far as the setter will take them". Was Micha a great setter? Did she lead the team because of her setting skill or did she lead the team by the dominating competitive personality reflected in every player on the floor? From what little I know of Micha she wanted to win all the time and be the KING of the HILL From all appearances that is not what Brianna demonstrates. Detering is not known to me but she was not the starter for Florida for reasons not known to me.I have seen her a little and like what I saw but is she great? We won in 2010 but was Carp great? Was she the one that made them Champs? .... I was not following PSU volleyball in 2010, so I cannot comment about the team when Carp was setting. I only know they got a favorable bracket, which really helped them make it to the final. I'm assuming that the 2010 team had experience on their side (from winning 3 championships in a row), which gave them an edge against other teams (who might have played more tentative because of emotions or nerves). The 2010 team had four* significant holdovers from the 2007-09 championship run--All Americans Blair Brown and Arielle Scott, Super Libero Alyssa D'Errico, and DS Kathy(?) Quillico "the Widget."(her name escapes me) *Fatima Balza helped them reach the Final Four but did not play, And, three incredible Freshman who played a big role over the next three years--Deja McLendon, Ariel Scott, and Katie Slay. The 2015 and 2016 teams, regrettably don't have that kind of lineup. Carpenter was not the first choice to set this team but she did an admirable job. She showed a lot of class in how she handled being relegated to smaller roles during her last two years at PSU. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 19:00:03 GMT -5
I'm in a dead horse beating mood. If you enjoyed the beat down that PSU administered to Washington in 2013, go back (on PSUMAUI's SFCPLDC site) and watch the 2010 team pound Texas. Until the Washington game, it was a record for score differential in a Final Four game.
|
|
|
|
Post by Millennium on Nov 1, 2016 19:50:33 GMT -5
I'm in a dead horse beating mood. If you enjoyed the beat down that PSU administered to Washington in 2013, go back (on PSUMAUI's SFCPLDC site) and watch the 2010 team pound Texas. Until the Washington game, it was a record for score differential in a Final Four game. Those videos sure help rekindle the zeal.  |
|
