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Post by nyline on Sept 24, 2021 9:04:52 GMT -5
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Post by traveler on Sept 24, 2021 10:26:43 GMT -5
I was hoping seeing it in Black and White would help me, but there's a lot of Gray area.
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Post by elliotberton on Sept 24, 2021 17:06:39 GMT -5
Making things more confusing, the rules for Liberos in international play are, I think, different. I don't think international Liberos are allowed to serve, but I believe more than one Libero can be designated in a set (?) I recall an international match where Megan Courtney was the serve-receive Libero and Wong-Orontes subbed in for her to play Libero when USA was serving.
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Post by traveler on Sept 24, 2021 17:48:58 GMT -5
I doubt Megan was a libero in that instance. Probably just a serving specialist. i *think* I remember rules 10+ years ago when the L was not allowed to serve anywhere and then USAV or some such changed the rules.
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Post by elliotberton on Sept 24, 2021 22:17:09 GMT -5
I doubt Megan was a libero in that instance. Probably just a serving specialist. i *think* I remember rules 10+ years ago when the L was not allowed to serve anywhere and then USAV or some such changed the rules. Was a Grand Prix and Karch changed Liberos after each side out. I was astonished since I thought only one Libero per set was the requirement. |
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Post by traveler on Sept 24, 2021 23:48:48 GMT -5
OK. Wow, thought that was not allowed. Thanks for clarifying!
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Post by EnglishPennStateFan on Sept 25, 2021 6:13:39 GMT -5
Thanks for posting nyline, but I'm still not totally understanding, even though I've been watching NCAA volleyball since 2018! The specific paragraphs that confuse me are these:
"When it was Gorrell’s turn to serve, Gray entered for Gorrell without a formal substitution and White went to the service line. That made Gorrell the next player that will replace White when it’s Gray’s turn to serve again. How can this happen?
Well, what really happened was two libero substitutions in one action. Gray replaced White — since she was the only player that can replace the libero, per the rules outlined earlier — and White replaced Gorrell, which made Gorrell the only player to replace White."
I've re-read this several times and still don't get it. Any chance of breaking it down even further? You have my email if you want to do it that way, to avoid boring those that do understand it!
By the way, I won't be flying over this season as admittance to the US won't be possible till November and that would present extra difficulties in respect of driving in the dark and bad weather. I would have loved to see the Minnesota game on the 29th as I think that will be a cracker, but that's almost December and I know you can get snowstorms at that time of the year.
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Post by nyline on Sept 25, 2021 7:48:45 GMT -5
Thanks for posting nyline, but I'm still not totally understanding, even though I've been watching NCAA volleyball since 2018! The specific paragraphs that confuse me are these: "When it was Gorrell’s turn to serve, Gray entered for Gorrell without a formal substitution and White went to the service line. That made Gorrell the next player that will replace White when it’s Gray’s turn to serve again. How can this happen? Well, what really happened was two libero substitutions in one action. Gray replaced White — since she was the only player that can replace the libero, per the rules outlined earlier — and White replaced Gorrell, which made Gorrell the only player to replace White." I've re-read this several times and still don't get it. Any chance of breaking it down even further? You have my email if you want to do it that way, to avoid boring those that do understand it! By the way, I won't be flying over this season as admittance to the US won't be possible till November and that would present extra difficulties in respect of driving in the dark and bad weather. I would have loved to see the Minnesota game on the 29th as I think that will be a cracker, but that's almost December and I know you can get snowstorms at that time of the year. I don't know, but it appears that there's sort of a transitive property for liberos -- they can only be replaced by one player -- presumably, if I'm understanding, the player they replaced. But they then can come back in and replace a different player -- who then becomes the only player that can replace them. But again -- I really have no idea. I think this is one for revref |
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Post by elliotberton on Sept 25, 2021 17:11:58 GMT -5
OK. Wow, thought that was not allowed. Thanks for clarifying! According to Better at Volleyball.com, the Master Guide To Liberos (I didn't know that was a thing) "Whenever the play is stopped, the Libero may replace." Also "the rule in international play is that there must be a rally between when the libero leaves the court and when they come back in for another player." Further, "The libero can replace any back row player." (This last appears to a universal rule.) There are explanations for why the Libero does not have to get permission to come onto the court like other players, and an explanation for exceptions in leagues where Liberos can serve. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2021 22:11:35 GMT -5
Thanks for posting nyline, but I'm still not totally understanding, even though I've been watching NCAA volleyball since 2018! The specific paragraphs that confuse me are these: "When it was Gorrell’s turn to serve, Gray entered for Gorrell without a formal substitution and White went to the service line. That made Gorrell the next player that will replace White when it’s Gray’s turn to serve again. How can this happen? Well, what really happened was two libero substitutions in one action. Gray replaced White — since she was the only player that can replace the libero, per the rules outlined earlier — and White replaced Gorrell, which made Gorrell the only player to replace White." I've re-read this several times and still don't get it. Any chance of breaking it down even further? You have my email if you want to do it that way, to avoid boring those that do understand it! By the way, I won't be flying over this season as admittance to the US won't be possible till November and that would present extra difficulties in respect of driving in the dark and bad weather. I would have loved to see the Minnesota game on the 29th as I think that will be a cracker, but that's almost December and I know you can get snowstorms at that time of the year. I agree. That article was confusing the way it was written. They could have done a better job helping us to visualize what was happening on the court. |
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Post by seeyajohn on Sept 26, 2021 7:45:14 GMT -5
Gray to serve - Gorrell subs for White (only time that White is not on the floor).
When opponents side out - White subs back in for Gray
When Gorrell's turn to serve - Gray subs for White, and then White subs for Gorrell - Since Gorrell was in the serving position, White serves.
No substitutions involving White are counted toward the teams 15 substitution limit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2021 2:50:31 GMT -5
... and then White subs for Gorrell - Since Gorrell was in the serving position, White serves. Thanks, much better explanation. Just one question: Did the line above happen after a sideout or was it immediate? |
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Post by seeyajohn on Sept 27, 2021 7:14:14 GMT -5
... and then White subs for Gorrell - Since Gorrell was in the serving position, White serves. Thanks, much better explanation. Just one question: Did the line above happen after a sideout or was it immediate? It happens at the time that the team rotates into Gorrell's turn to serve. But Gorrell never serves with White serving instead. With today's team it is almost always Holland who serves while Hampton is out and then Hampton serves in place of Hord.
So this season we get:
Holland to serve - Hord subs for Hampton (only time that Hampton is not on the floor).
When opponents side out - Hampton subs back in for Holland
When Hord's turn to serve - Holland subs for Hampton, and then Hampton subs for Hord - Since Hord is in the serving position, Hampton serves.
No substitutions involving Hampton are counted toward the teams 15 substitution limit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2021 8:01:40 GMT -5
Thanks, much better explanation. Just one question: Did the line above happen after a sideout or was it immediate? When Hord's turn to serve - Holland subs for Hampton, and then Hampton subs for Hord - Since Hord is in the serving position, Hampton serves.
This is the part that confuses me. Are you saying that we have 2 substitutions involving Hampton before the ball is put in play again? |
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Post by seeyajohn on Sept 27, 2021 14:22:39 GMT -5
When Hord's turn to serve - Holland subs for Hampton, and then Hampton subs for Hord - Since Hord is in the serving position, Hampton serves.
This is the part that confuses me. Are you saying that we have 2 substitutions involving Hampton before the ball is put in play again? Yes. |
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