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Post by bob2061 on Apr 16, 2017 20:56:56 GMT -5
Dear Bob, I am an avid fan of both the wrestling and women's volleyball teams. There is absolutely no reason to attempt to pit the success of the two dynasties against each other. We are blessed to have both programs at PSU. I don't understand why you think comparing two sports is pitting them against each other. Surely they can both win independent of each other. It seems ironic that our greatest need for 2018 was for pin hitters and yet we didn't add a single one via recruiting. Chances are we will be redshirting at least one or two players in the 2018 recruiting class since we will be overstocked at middle blocker and libero. Obviously the coaches have a plan to make it all work out. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 21:07:18 GMT -5
One of the challenges PSU volleyball fans face is an absence of reliable information sources. We're like Kremlin watchers during the Cold War. We have to assume Coach Rose likes it this way. Who knows, discussions in PSU's coaching offices might start with, "Did you see what those Volleytalk clowns said today?" It's good that we can laugh at ourselves, but not knowing about issues we care deeply about can breed frustration. Patience is a good, but not very satisfying characteristic to aspire to.
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Post by paracor on Apr 17, 2017 8:04:04 GMT -5
The NCAA scholarship limit for Division 1 wrestling is just 9.9 total. They do not have to be full scholarships, and may be split up among the team members. It's amazing that Cael continues to draw the top talent year after year with such limitations.
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Post by nyline on Apr 17, 2017 9:17:07 GMT -5
Dear Bob, I am an avid fan of both the wrestling and women's volleyball teams. There is absolutely no reason to attempt to pit the success of the two dynasties against each other. We are blessed to have both programs at PSU. [ . . . ] It seems ironic that our greatest need for 2018 was for pin hitters and yet we didn't add a single one via recruiting. Chances are we will be redshirting at least one or two players in the 2018 recruiting class since we will be overstocked at middle blocker and libero. Obviously the coaches have a plan to make it all work out. A couple of things. First, the "you're entitled to your opinion" disclaimer. Because you are. But in my opinion, a more nuanced analysis would be more productive. Do you really know that neither of Serena Gray or Kaitlin Hord will switch to the outside -- say, for example, to RS/Opp? I don't know one way or the other, but it's certainly possible the coaches had that in mind when they were recruited, and discussed that possibility with them. Again, not saying that is what happened, but I'm guessing you don't know that it didn't, and we know that players do switch positions from club to college -- see Heidi Thelen as exhibit 1. Overstocked at libero? Kendall White will graduate after 2019, so there will be two years of overlap between White and the two listed incoming defensive specialist/liberos from the 2018 class -- Jenna Hampton and Brooklynn Hill. That doesn't appear to be "overstocked" -- just prudent. |
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Post by stillkicking on Apr 17, 2017 11:47:15 GMT -5
This is the exact reason I became a super fan. You keep us informed of the day to day activities that surrounds our team. I very seldom post, but I do read and check out the page at least once a day. If I had to depend on the Penn State Web Site I could see our 2016 Roster and be left in the dark about what has happened thus far. Thanks again for being there and you will always have my support.
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Post by nyline on Apr 17, 2017 14:12:33 GMT -5
This is the exact reason I became a super fan. You keep us informed of the day to day activities that surrounds our team. I very seldom post, but I do read and check out the page at least once a day. If I had to depend on the Penn State Web Site I could see our 2016 Roster and be left in the dark about what has happened thus far. Thanks again for being there and you will always have my support. Thanks very much. We really appreciate it (including my slacker staff, who managed to give a collective nod of approval -- a huge effort on their part, as you might imagine from such a low-energy group  ). |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 16:08:28 GMT -5
The NCAA scholarship limit for Division 1 wrestling is just 9.9 total. They do not have to be full scholarships, and may be split up among the team members. It's amazing that Cael continues to draw the top talent year after year with such limitations. Thanks for the information. I had no idea that the number of scholarships was so low. After watching the recent championship, it looked like PSU has two or three wrestlers at each weight class. It's obvious that Cael is the primary draw. Let's hope that PSU can keep him at Happy Valley. |
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Post by elliotberton on Apr 17, 2017 18:15:01 GMT -5
I find it difficult to be very critical of our VB coaching staff. So much success over a long period of time. Even last year, which seemed underwhelming, we nearly upset the number 1 seed.
Nonetheless, since the issue has been raised, I would like to make one or two observations.
1. Virtually all major schools field a women's VB team (thanks Title IX). Not all schools have wrestling. So the competition for recruits is more fierce in VB than in wrestling. This is not to take anything away from the thoroughly impressive job Mr. Sanderson and his staff have done. But, like Duke basketball, it is not automatic that the top players will join our VB team, even players from PA.
2-Another major difference (and I might be mistaken), but it seems like players transfer more in VB than they do in wrestling. Not sure why that would be, especially if there are only 10 scholarships, but VB players of some substance leave apparently to get more playing time. Hence, I suppose, not only must VB staffs recruit future Freshwomen, but attention must be paid to current players who might be interested in transferring. Essentially double the work.
3-Underlining a point made by others, team success in wrestling is dictated by a unique scoring system. Bonus points are awarded for more impressive victories, which skews team point totals. A team with two or three studs can cover holes in a line up by getting those bonus points. And in National and Conference tourneys, they have consolation rounds, essentially rewarding a wrestler who had the misfortune of losing to a better wrestler in an early round with a chance to get team points against other unfortunates. In more traditionally scored sports like VB, where a one and done format largely determines how a team is regarded historically, it can be harder to cover over weak positions.
So it is my perception that the wrestling team is extremely impressive, but is for now, one of the few programs where the top guys want to go. PSU however is one of an increasing number of places where a top 14 or 15 year old club VB player might find attractive.
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Post by nyline on Apr 17, 2017 19:33:06 GMT -5
I find it difficult to be very critical of our VB coaching staff. So much success over a long period of time. Even last year, which seemed underwhelming, we nearly upset the number 1 seed. Nonetheless, since the issue has been raised, I would like to make one or two observations. 1. Virtually all major schools field a women's VB team (thanks Title IX). Not all schools have wrestling. So the competition for recruits is more fierce in VB than in wrestling. This is not to take anything away from the thoroughly impressive job Mr. Sanderson and his staff have done. But, like Duke basketball, it is not automatic that the top players will join our VB team, even players from PA. 2-Another major difference (and I might be mistaken), but it seems like players transfer more in VB than they do in wrestling. Not sure why that would be, especially if there are only 10 scholarships, but VB players of some substance leave apparently to get more playing time. Hence, I suppose, not only must VB staffs recruit future Freshwomen, but attention must be paid to current players who might be interested in transferring. Essentially double the work. 3-Underlining a point made by others, team success in wrestling is dictated by a unique scoring system. Bonus points are awarded for more impressive victories, which skews team point totals. A team with two or three studs can cover holes in a line up by getting those bonus points. And in National and Conference tourneys, they have consolation rounds, essentially rewarding a wrestler who had the misfortune of losing to a better wrestler in an early round with a chance to get team points against other unfortunates. In more traditionally scored sports like VB, where a one and done format largely determines how a team is regarded historically, it can be harder to cover over weak positions. So it is my perception that the wrestling team is extremely impressive, but is for now, one of the few programs where the top guys want to go. PSU however is one of an increasing number of places where a top 14 or 15 year old club VB player might find attractive. Thanks for a very thoughtful post. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 20:55:59 GMT -5
I find it difficult to be very critical of our VB coaching staff. So much success over a long period of time. Even last year, which seemed underwhelming, we nearly upset the number 1 seed. Nonetheless, since the issue has been raised, I would like to make one or two observations. 1. Virtually all major schools field a women's VB team (thanks Title IX). Not all schools have wrestling. So the competition for recruits is more fierce in VB than in wrestling. This is not to take anything away from the thoroughly impressive job Mr. Sanderson and his staff have done. But, like Duke basketball, it is not automatic that the top players will join our VB team, even players from PA. Great post. I have a "quibbling observation" regarding your first point. Title IX is a primary reason many colleges have dropped wrestling. While schools compete for quality volleyball players, imagine the pressure on quality wrestlers to find a scholarship among an ever decreasing number of schools. For me, it's not a good-bad situation. It's simply unfortunate because I like both sports. PSU is very fortunate to be able to provide the infrastructure to support high-level teams in both sports. |
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Post by bob2061 on Apr 17, 2017 22:20:02 GMT -5
I find it difficult to be very critical of our VB coaching staff. So much success over a long period of time. Even last year, which seemed underwhelming, we nearly upset the number 1 seed. Nonetheless, since the issue has been raised, I would like to make one or two observations. 1. Virtually all major schools field a women's VB team (thanks Title IX). Not all schools have wrestling. So the competition for recruits is more fierce in VB than in wrestling. This is not to take anything away from the thoroughly impressive job Mr. Sanderson and his staff have done. But, like Duke basketball, it is not automatic that the top players will join our VB team, even players from PA. 2-Another major difference (and I might be mistaken), but it seems like players transfer more in VB than they do in wrestling. Not sure why that would be, especially if there are only 10 scholarships, but VB players of some substance leave apparently to get more playing time. Hence, I suppose, not only must VB staffs recruit future Freshwomen, but attention must be paid to current players who might be interested in transferring. Essentially double the work. 3-Underlining a point made by others, team success in wrestling is dictated by a unique scoring system. Bonus points are awarded for more impressive victories, which skews team point totals. A team with two or three studs can cover holes in a line up by getting those bonus points. And in National and Conference tourneys, they have consolation rounds, essentially rewarding a wrestler who had the misfortune of losing to a better wrestler in an early round with a chance to get team points against other unfortunates. In more traditionally scored sports like VB, where a one and done format largely determines how a team is regarded historically, it can be harder to cover over weak positions. So it is my perception that the wrestling team is extremely impressive, but is for now, one of the few programs where the top guys want to go. PSU however is one of an increasing number of places where a top 14 or 15 year old club VB player might find attractive. Thanks for a very thoughtful post. I don't see why you think you could take anything away from Coach Sanderson. He is doing a fantastic job and becoming a living legend himself. I think every coach pays attention to retaining their players unless they want them to leave. This has been shown to happen more often than we want to admit. Coaches are either increasing their ability to connect with high school recruits or losing their ability to do so. Our obvious inabililty to attract top pin hitters like Lexi Sun, Haley Warner,Thayer Hall, Mia Grunze, Stephanie Samedy, Jasmire Martin, just to name a few, is a telling sign. Pin hitters are to volleyball as quarterbacks and running backs are to football. It appears our VB coaches knew they were the problem and felt they had no choice over the last few years but cast a wide net to look far and wide for transfers and foreign pin hitters. Hopefully it will eventually work out because our great 2014 recruiting class will be playing their senior year this fall. |
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Post by bob2061 on Apr 17, 2017 22:27:10 GMT -5
[ . . . ] It seems ironic that our greatest need for 2018 was for pin hitters and yet we didn't add a single one via recruiting. Chances are we will be redshirting at least one or two players in the 2018 recruiting class since we will be overstocked at middle blocker and libero. Obviously the coaches have a plan to make it all work out. A couple of things. First, the "you're entitled to your opinion" disclaimer. Because you are. But in my opinion, a more nuanced analysis would be more productive. Do you really know that neither of Serena Gray or Kaitlin Hord will switch to the outside -- say, for example, to RS/Opp? I don't know one way or the other, but it's certainly possible the coaches had that in mind when they were recruited, and discussed that possibility with them. Again, not saying that is what happened, but I'm guessing you don't know that it didn't, and we know that players do switch positions from club to college -- see Heidi Thelen as exhibit 1. Overstocked at libero? Kendall White will graduate after 2019, so there will be two years of overlap between White and the two listed incoming defensive specialist/liberos from the 2018 class -- Jenna Hampton and Brooklynn Hill. That doesn't appear to be "overstocked" -- just prudent. Using Heidi to justify your point about position changes is a little lame. Since we have six positions on the vb court; if we carry two "prudent" backups for each one we would need 18 scholarships (oops only 12 available). I don't see it as prudent to plan on using pin hitters who couldn't succeed at their prior schools to fill these critical positions. You must know things about these transfers that I don't know that make them so valuable over all the highly recommended high school recruits in the entire country. BTW if we are planning to make these middle blocker recruits into pin hitters; why are we continuing to bring in pin hitter transfers from other less successful programs. Perhaps we are just using a wide net to reflect our growing need for pin hitters in the future? |
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Post by cross5 on Apr 18, 2017 10:03:39 GMT -5
Wrestling only has 75 schools participating.
The B1G is the ONLY league with all its members (14) participating.
The success of a Wrestling program can be defined by the number of All American (semis) or a single National Champion in addition to a team Championship. Not really the case for a sole team sport.
The MAC, ACC SEC and PAC 12 have maybe half or often less than have the schools participating.
Wrestling is a dying and still mostly regional sport....(sadly)
There are very few strong programs and only half the 75 are fully funded at 9+.
Cael is special and has built quite a culture in the hotbed of wrestlingland.
GIRLS VB is the largest participation sport now and it is a National sport with 335 D1 program.
Most all are fully funded and all the Big leagues are getting national exposure and live TV /video coverage.
In this NOW generation of big time sports club coaches,parents and players see the opportunity of extended PRO play and $$ and fame. The grind mentality still present in wrestling (much appreciated) is long gone in many sports, women's volleyball for the most part included. Gotta go where I can start and shine. That is factor that is often overlooked.
As far as recruiting, yes, PSU missed on some blue chips.
While that is and always was a happening, I would say the coaching turnover, Kaleena,Steve,Stevie,Adam etc did NOT "help" the situation.
But this happens in great programs.
There are a few other situations that directed energy elsewhere imo.
Kaleena was a terrific recruiter, as was Salima and Coach Schall before. Steve was on the move. Not really Adams job.
Stevie......
Anywho....the team is going to be really good this year and I expect that Weiskircher a much larger part of the teams success this year.
I can forsee a B1G title, hosting a Regional and Finals appearence. This team (coaches and players) will be on a mission.
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Post by bob2061 on Apr 18, 2017 12:33:02 GMT -5
I hope your vision is 20/20.
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Post by elliotberton on Apr 19, 2017 12:45:41 GMT -5
Friend Bob defends his position admirably. To be clear, Coach Sanderson has elevated PSU onto a very small list of schools where wrestlers want to go. He brings in guys from all over the place, and in so doing out recruits the Oklahomas and the Iowas, who used to be the "places to go." Until Sanderson arrived, PSU wrestling was very good, but not in the very top tier. None of my observations were intended to diminish the undeniably impressive work he has done-even while he himself returned to competition.
I would also like to point out that PSU has benefitted from a number of other highly successful coaches, including Erica Walsh, who is also raising the school's profile in a very competitive sport.
So while I bask in Cross' optimism, I do acknowledge that the VB team missed out on some top talent. I suspect that the reasons we missed out are more complicated and nuanced than deficiencies in our coaching staff, but I am insufficiently well informed to dispute such comments with any true assurance.
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