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Post by nyline on Nov 5, 2017 14:26:57 GMT -5
Actually I recall some one saying that Thayer Hall had rounded her 2 choices to Florida and Penn State. In the end, she stayed in her home state of Florida. I can't say I blame her. Didn't we lose the 2018 #1 football recruit to Georgia because he decided to remain in his home state? It happens. You're fairly close, except I believe Thayer Hall is from South Carolina. I would like to add that this whole notion of our coaches "failing" to land someone is, in my opinion, seriously off the mark. Let's look at Brother Bob's arguments about the recruiting "failures" of Coach Rose and his staff. Brother Bob has stated that because the coaching staff did not land highly-ranked classes in 2015, 2016 and 2017, they "failed." Brother Bob apparently pays no mind to the fact that there are limited scholarships to give, nor does he seemingly pay any attention to the fact that for the 2015 and 2016 classes, the coaches of other teams were certainly whispering in the ears of highly-recruited prospects that they would spend their first one or two years at Penn State sitting on the bench, behind players from Penn State's 2014 class. Could Penn State have landed highly-rated recruits in those years despite those obstacles? Theoretically, yes. But the players have to want to come to Penn State, and Coach Rose and staff have to believe the players will be a good fit at Penn State. More talent doesn't always equal a better team. Look at the 2007 Nebraska squad -- which returned most everyone from the Husker's 2006 NCAA Championship squad, plus got back a former 1st Team All American who had been injured. Guess what -- they didn't repeat. And Texas has one NCAA Championship in the past 25 years or so. That's what all their talent has done for them. So maybe the high-quality players who Penn State might have taken, simply weren't good fits for Penn State. Coach Rose often says he doesn't want players to come to Penn State because Penn State is the best, he wants them to come to Penn State because they want to be the best. Brother Bob also apparently doesn't take into consideration that for several years other teams have probably told recruits that Coach Rose would be retiring soon (ignoring the fact that they themselves might very well be fired, or leave for supposedly greener pastures at another school). That probably worked with some recruits -- maybe key recruits. And it probably took some time for Coach Rose and his staff to recognize and react to those kinds of tactics. It looks like they have done that now -- just look to the 2018 squad. There's also the argument that Coach Rose likes the "Big Class" model. This is the third time since 2010 that he's brought in a monster class -- both in quality and quantity -- the 2010 Class featured seven highly-ranked recruits; the 2014 Class featured six highly-ranked recruits; and the 2018 class features seven highly-ranked recruits (including PrepVolleyball.com Defensive Dandy Brooklyn Hill) . That model has yielded three National Championships in seven years, with the possibility of a fourth National Championship this season. Not bad. Brother Bob points to programs like Nebraska, and Texas and Stanford as "successful" programs that "always" land highly-ranked classes, but in doing so, he conveniently overlooks that from 2006 through 2016, those three schools won a total of four National Championships, compared to the six national championships won by Penn State during that period. He also overlooks the possibility that the "Big Class" model limits the opportunities for bringing in highly-ranked, but smaller, classes every year. Brother Bob appears to think that Penn State could have garnered highly-ranked recruits despite those obstacles if only they had not "failed" by committing "too completely" (or words to this effect) to the 2014 class, by which, I assume, Brother Bob believes one or more players from that class should have been pressured by the staff to leave the team. I just don't think that is Coach Rose's way, nor should it be, in my opinion. A separate issue is whether any 2014 class member should have been pressured to leave. Putting aside for a moment that I don't think players should ever be "run off," I don't think any player in the 2014 class merited that even if one believed it is OK to run players off. They all have performed well -- even, I would argue, Nia Reed, whose injury undoubtedly set her back, and who appears finally to be "ready." But for the record, I don't think that Coach Rose should go there, and start running players off. Although players do transfer from Penn State, my belief is that Coach Rose has always taken the position that if a recruit isn't good enough for Penn State, that's his fault as an assessor of talent, not the recruit's fault. So I don't believe he pressures players to leave the program. Just look at the recent cases of Wilma Rivera and Jelena Novakovic. Both came in as part of the 2015 class. Neither contributed in a significant way in matches, even though they were both in positions of need for Penn State in 2015 and 2016. If Coach Rose had just wanted to free up scholarships so that he could bring in a transfer, he clearly could have pressured them to leave. It's obvious he didn't -- they were both here in 2016. In any case, it looks like Penn State made two recruiting mistakes, which compounded some of the other challenges facing Coach Rose and his staff. But the players stayed with the team for two years, after which they were able to transfer to two excellent schools, where they are thriving. They were good fits at those schools. Just not at Penn State's program. I do not suggest that the staff hasn't "failed" at times to accomplish things they wanted to accomplish. For example, I am confident they would have liked to have Thayer Hall pick Penn State. But again, as gnu2vball pointed out, Thayer Hall had a say in that choice, and there may have been nothing Coach Rose and staff could have said or done to change her mind. More important, in my mind, is that they followed that supposed "failure" with a spectacular series of successes for the 2018 Class. What I fail to understand is the constant drumbeat of criticism by Brother Bob of a wildly successful coach and program. No one is immune from criticism, but Brother Bob's narrative is, for me at least, getting old. So all this is a very long-winded way of saying -- specifically to Brother Bob, but also generally, that I think we ought to put the "recruiting" failures narrative to bed. To be clear -- no one will be banned for continuing the discussion, or saying (politely, one would hope) that they think I am full of it and hopelessly naïve. Perhaps I am. FWIW, no one has ever been banned from this site, and certainly would not be for criticizing my positions on anything. But I think Brother Bob is beating the issue to death.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 14:32:52 GMT -5
Who was that other top outside they missed out on and also went to Florida. Whoever that was heard it was down to either psu or Florida. Psu still attracts top players in country but as nyline said. Coaches can only do so much. In the end it’s players decision
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Post by nyline on Nov 5, 2017 14:39:54 GMT -5
Who was that other top outside they missed out on and also went to Florida. Whoever that was heard it was down to either psu or Florida. Psu still attracts top players in country but as nyline said. Coaches can only do so much. In the end it’s players decision I only know of Thayer Hall for next season. There may have been one in previous seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 15:10:58 GMT -5
Who was that other top outside they missed out on and also went to Florida. Whoever that was heard it was down to either psu or Florida. Psu still attracts top players in country but as nyline said. Coaches can only do so much. In the end it’s players decision I only know of Thayer Hall for next season. There may have been one in previous seasons. It was Haley warner I was talking about. 6’1 opposite. Thought she was next season idk.
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Post by nyline on Nov 5, 2017 15:12:26 GMT -5
I only know of Thayer Hall for next season. There may have been one in previous seasons. It was Haley warner I was talking about. 6’1 opposite. Thought she was next season idk. That sounds right.
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Post by Millennium on Nov 5, 2017 16:10:32 GMT -5
Actually I recall some one saying that Thayer Hall had rounded her 2 choices to Florida and Penn State. In the end, she stayed in her home state of Florida. I can't say I blame her. Didn't we lose the 2018 #1 football recruit to Georgia because he decided to remain in his home state? It happens. You're fairly close, except I believe Thayer Hall is from South Carolina. Well that sure throws a wrench in my whole argument. LOL!!!! Who was from Florida who ended up going to FL? Or am I thinking of another sport? LOL! I only know of Thayer Hall for next season. There may have been one in previous seasons. It was Haley warner I was talking about. 6’1 opposite. Thought she was next season idk. Scratch that question Nyline, I just saw this from airesfyr78.
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Post by bob2061 on Nov 5, 2017 16:36:22 GMT -5
It is always great to pick up some recruits that qualify for academic scholarships. OTOH if Coach had landed Thayer Hall for 2018 class we would have started another dynasty. Instead she is going to Florida. Bob: I can't speak to your intent, but your statement about Thayer Hall implies that Coach Rose failed to do something that might have landed her. What might that have been? Do you know Ms. Hall? Or her parents? Seems to me that there are a lot of moving parts to recruiting, not the least of which is that players are sentient beings. Thayer Hall may hate PSU and there might have been nothing Coach Rose could have done to bring her to PSU. Consider Wisconsin's former setter. She wanted to go to Wisconsin, no matter who the coach. I guess Coach Rose " failed" to land her too? If you have enough insider knowledge to know how and why Coach Rose actually failed to land a player, you should have enough respect for your sources not to share that information. And if you don't..... I don't think anyone failed we just came up as her second choice Try not to be a glass half-empty fan. I really thought we had a good chance with Thayer since Florida already had three senior ace pin hitters, but you never know. Thanks for the innuendoes.
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Post by cross5 on Nov 5, 2017 16:45:11 GMT -5
Warner and Hall lost out.
Their problem, not ours.
Wish them a good 4 years.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 17:24:21 GMT -5
Warner and Hall lost out. Their problem, not ours. Wish them a good 4 years. It’s not the talent u get, it’s how u utilize that talent and rose is one of best at putting players in right positions for being successful.
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Post by bob2061 on Nov 5, 2017 18:29:37 GMT -5
Sorry to rain on your parade but Gabby will definitely play next year, she is that good. Things are going to be very crowded at setter and MH. Why waste a year of her eligibility when she has no outsides. Why not redshirt her and let wieskircher finish season next year then hopefully get some highly rated outsides following year. That’s why I would red shirt Hampton also. She’s one of top liberos in country and u just want to bring her in as ds. Very unlikely White gets demoted. We will have Cather and Reed on the Left side and probably Jonni Parker on the right side. I think we will be very young overall but a pretty good team, which will only get better. I don't want to get to far ahead of myself though. Even though I said Gabby will play, I don't know how much but you are always one injury away from plan B.
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Post by bob2061 on Nov 5, 2017 18:36:03 GMT -5
Warner and Hall lost out. Their problem, not ours. Wish them a good 4 years. It’s not the talent u get, it’s how u utilize that talent and rose is one of best at putting players in right positions for being successful. If that was completely true we would win every year b/c we have the best coach. Recruiting is the lifeblood of every sport. A pretty good example is Micha Hancock.
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Post by bob2061 on Nov 5, 2017 22:21:51 GMT -5
Actually I recall some one saying that Thayer Hall had rounded her 2 choices to Florida and Penn State. In the end, she stayed in her home state of Florida. I can't say I blame her. Didn't we lose the 2018 #1 football recruit to Georgia because he decided to remain in his home state? It happens. You're fairly close, except I believe Thayer Hall is from South Carolina. I would like to add that this whole notion of our coaches "failing" to land someone is, in my opinion, seriously off the mark. Let's look at Brother Bob's arguments about the recruiting "failures" of Coach Rose and his staff. Brother Bob has stated that because the coaching staff did not land highly-ranked classes in 2015, 2016 and 2017, they "failed." Brother Bob apparently pays no mind to the fact that there are limited scholarships to give, nor does he seemingly pay any attention to the fact that for the 2015 and 2016 classes, the coaches of other teams were certainly whispering in the ears of highly-recruited prospects that they would spend their first one or two years at Penn State sitting on the bench, behind players from Penn State's 2014 class. Could Penn State have landed highly-rated recruits in those years despite those obstacles? Theoretically, yes. But the players have to want to come to Penn State, and Coach Rose and staff have to believe the players will be a good fit at Penn State. More talent doesn't always equal a better team. Look at the 2007 Nebraska squad -- which returned most everyone from the Husker's 2006 NCAA Championship squad, plus got back a former 1st Team All American who had been injured. Guess what -- they didn't repeat. And Texas has one NCAA Championship in the past 25 years or so. That's what all their talent has done for them. So maybe the high-quality players who Penn State might have taken, simply weren't good fits for Penn State. Coach Rose often says he doesn't want players to come to Penn State because Penn State is the best, he wants them to come to Penn State because they want to be the best. Brother Bob also apparently doesn't take into consideration that for several years other teams have probably told recruits that Coach Rose would be retiring soon (ignoring the fact that they themselves might very well be fired, or leave for supposedly greener pastures at another school). That probably worked with some recruits -- maybe key recruits. And it probably took some time for Coach Rose and his staff to recognize and react to those kinds of tactics. It looks like they have done that now -- just look to the 2018 squad. There's also the argument that Coach Rose likes the "Big Class" model. This is the third time since 2010 that he's brought in a monster class -- both in quality and quantity -- the 2010 Class featured seven highly-ranked recruits; the 2014 Class featured six highly-ranked recruits; and the 2018 class features seven highly-ranked recruits (including PrepVolleyball.com Defensive Dandy Brooklyn Hill) . That model has yielded three National Championships in seven years, with the possibility of a fourth National Championship this season. Not bad. Brother Bob points to programs like Nebraska, and Texas and Stanford as "successful" programs that "always" land highly-ranked classes, but in doing so, he conveniently overlooks that from 2006 through 2016, those three schools won a total of four National Championships, compared to the six national championships won by Penn State during that period. He also overlooks the possibility that the "Big Class" model limits the opportunities for bringing in highly-ranked, but smaller, classes every year. Brother Bob appears to think that Penn State could have garnered highly-ranked recruits despite those obstacles if only they had not "failed" by committing "too completely" (or words to this effect) to the 2014 class, by which, I assume, Brother Bob believes one or more players from that class should have been pressured by the staff to leave the team. I just don't think that is Coach Rose's way, nor should it be, in my opinion. A separate issue is whether any 2014 class member should have been pressured to leave. Putting aside for a moment that I don't think players should ever be "run off," I don't think any player in the 2014 class merited that even if one believed it is OK to run players off. They all have performed well -- even, I would argue, Nia Reed, whose injury undoubtedly set her back, and who appears finally to be "ready." But for the record, I don't think that Coach Rose should go there, and start running players off. Although players do transfer from Penn State, my belief is that Coach Rose has always taken the position that if a recruit isn't good enough for Penn State, that's his fault as an assessor of talent, not the recruit's fault. So I don't believe he pressures players to leave the program. Just look at the recent cases of Wilma Rivera and Jelena Novakovic. Both came in as part of the 2015 class. Neither contributed in a significant way in matches, even though they were both in positions of need for Penn State in 2015 and 2016. If Coach Rose had just wanted to free up scholarships so that he could bring in a transfer, he clearly could have pressured them to leave. It's obvious he didn't -- they were both here in 2016. In any case, it looks like Penn State made two recruiting mistakes, which compounded some of the other challenges facing Coach Rose and his staff. But the players stayed with the team for two years, after which they were able to transfer to two excellent schools, where they are thriving. They were good fits at those schools. Just not at Penn State's program. I do not suggest that the staff hasn't "failed" at times to accomplish things they wanted to accomplish. For example, I am confident they would have liked to have Thayer Hall pick Penn State. But again, as gnu2vball pointed out, Thayer Hall had a say in that choice, and there may have been nothing Coach Rose and staff could have said or done to change her mind. More important, in my mind, is that they followed that supposed "failure" with a spectacular series of successes for the 2018 Class. What I fail to understand is the constant drumbeat of criticism by Brother Bob of a wildly successful coach and program. No one is immune from criticism, but Brother Bob's narrative is, for me at least, getting old. So all this is a very long-winded way of saying -- specifically to Brother Bob, but also generally, that I think we ought to put the "recruiting" failures narrative to bed. To be clear -- no one will be banned for continuing the discussion, or saying (politely, one would hope) that they think I am full of it and hopelessly naïve. Perhaps I am. FWIW, no one has ever been banned from this site, and certainly would not be for criticizing my positions on anything. But I think Brother Bob is beating the issue to death. Message boards don't have "safe spaces" where you can hide from criticism, negativity, etc. At least for now they remain one of the last bastions of free speech where an exchange of differing opinions is possible. If everyone thought the same the world would be quite boring. BTW I believe our recruiting improved after I brought it up for discussion. I checked my messages and I never used the word "fail". Please be accurate when criticizing me.
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Post by cross5 on Nov 5, 2017 23:25:57 GMT -5
Boy this has been a nice ride to see this 2014 class develop into such terrific players.
The have done this University right. Congrats Ladies.
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Post by KittanningLion on Nov 6, 2017 9:46:55 GMT -5
Warner and Hall lost out. Their problem, not ours. Wish them a good 4 years. Per VT, Taylor Landfair lost out, too, i guess? Wishing her the best as a Gopher.
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Post by cross5 on Nov 6, 2017 10:34:52 GMT -5
www.collegian.psu.edu/sports/women_volleyball/article_b606994e-c1d3-11e7-b097-27474047530d.htmlWhen coach Russ Rose is a fan of another program or an opposing player, he’s quick to let people know. When Rose is a fan of his own team’s performance or the performance of his own players, he’s much more measured on the subject. But after Saturday night’s commanding 3-0 victory over Rutgers on senior night for Penn State, Rose had nothing but good things to say about the eight seniors that were honored before the game.
“All of them are great young people,” he said. “They’re all good students and I think they’re a great representative of their families and Penn State, so I’m proud of them.”
Among the seniors honored was middle blocker Haleigh Washington, who was Penn State’s top performer, finishing with 12 kills, five blocks and hit .733. Washington has racked up countless accolades and cemented herself in the annals of Penn State volleyball history, but the thing she’s most proud of is donning the blue and white each match.
“Being a part of this program is just an honor and a blessing,” Washington said. “It’s been an honor to wear the Penn State jersey, and I hope we can continue to represent in a positive way now, tomorrow, and all the way into December.”And for defensive specialist Lainy Pierce, it was more than an honor to play for Penn State. The program helped shape who she is. “It’s been everything,” Pierce said. “I’ve met my best friends here. I’ve challenged myself here and I don’t think I’d be the player I am today if I went to any other school.”Outside hitter Simone Lee, another one of the seniors honored before the game, felt a certain obligation to perform and live up to the Penn State standard during her time here. “We grew up watching Penn State volleyball and all the amazing players that came before us,” Lee said. “We want to continue what they started and continue winning and making the program better.”During their four years at Penn State, Lee and Washington have been integral in continuing Penn State’s winning ways. With Saturday’s six kill performance, Lee has 1,122 kills to her credit and was an AVCA First Team All-American and a unanimous All-Big Ten selection in 2016. And Saturday’s match helped pad Washington’s resume as well. She now has 1,063 kills, 517 blocks (she entered the game ninth in program history with 512), and is the seventh Penn State player to register 1000 kills and 500 blocks. She’s also been named an AVCA First Team All-American twice, in addition to three First Team All-Big Ten honors and being named 2014’s Big Ten Freshman of the Year. But whether it’s Washington, Lee or any of the other seniors, Rose was quick to show his fandom and appreciation for them, and not solely for their statistical achievements.
“I’m not a fan of the pomp and circumstance of senior night,” he said. “But I am a fan of the people who play.”
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